View Workout (Joe Uhan)
Chelsea Chatz
October 27, 2013 (Morning)
Exercise Type: Other
Comments:
We met at Agate Alley, which is a nice, small, quiet, and fancy-ish place near campus. It was a perfect setting, which allowed for us to talk freely...and for me to look damn good in my CK jacket! When I arrived, Chelsea was already there, had seated, and was walking toward the restroom up front when I walked in. We exchanged hellos, and I headed to the table. Her absence allowed me to collect myself a bit, and I ordered a beer. She returned. And we got started.
She spoke:
- She apologized for not communicating with me after the initial talk, and my letter. She felt badly about that, and her inability to communicate further with me (due to her and Jefe). This was not new to me, and, frankly, not particularly of value.
- She said she felt angry about how my actions ended the friendship. Again, not new, and not of value...on its own.
- She reiterated the importance - and rarity, for her - of our friendship, and how she missed that, which made her regret even more how things ended, and how nonexistent things have been between us.
- She referenced my desire that she "think about and talk to others" about our friendship/her feelings. She said she did not do that for a long time, so focused on damage-control with her and Jeff. Understandable, but also more evidence of her denial.
- Lastly, she said - multiple times in various forms - how she was "blind-sided" and had "no idea" about me having feelings for her, and that our relationship was "platonic". Definite crap.
I spoke very little at first, being very careful to listen to everything she had to say. After saying those things (and perhaps more, but nothing I can recall right now), I was unimpressed - none of this was new. I said to her, "I recall you saying in a text, that you had some questions.". She asked a few:
- She asked if I knew that - by expressing my feelings - I would effectively end our friendship. I said yes. Her face dropped. Undeterred, I said that - if this happened again, I would do the same thing. But I noted that, "It should not have gotten to that point". I didn't elaborate (yet).
- She asked if I thought that - by doing so - that she would leave Jeff and choose me. I said no, but that that wasn't exactly the point; only that I needed to be honest about my feelings.
After that, it was my turn to speak:
- I referenced the book, "The Four Agreements" by Carlos Ruiz. The Agreements:
1.) Be impeccible with your word.
2.) Never make assumptions.
3.) Don't take anything personally.
4.) Always try your best.
One by one, I began to express the mistakes *I* made, based on those agreements:
#1 - I spoke about early on, when she texted me about being in a "non-exclusive relationship", and how I wish we'd had a direct conversation, and that I more clearly expressed my feelings. Then again, when we talked about "just being friends", my lack of honesty about what I *really wanted* was flawed.
We then got specific about "kissing". I referenced that text exchange, where I ended it by saying, "I still want to kiss you" (in the future).
Her response: "Then why didn't you?".
Wow. Good point.
I told her, I chose not to, "out of respect for where she was, and for myself, not wanting to kiss someone in any relationship". But her point is well made. I wanted to; I should have. Her posing that question implies that she was either interested in that or would have been receptive to it...at least early on, before things "got real" with Jefe.
#2 - Assumptions. I assumed that she had feelings for me based on the energy we felt during our first date together. She did not deny that; in fact, she admitted there were "feelings" early on - again, pre-"commitment" to Jeff.
In fact, she mentioned multiple times that, although things were "clearly platonic" to her, she noted some underlying "feelings" between us - mutual - well into Sept-Oct-Nov, after she was committed to Jeff.
#4 - I skipped to "Try your best", and how I did not try my best - to get what I wanted, and to be honest, until the very end.
#3 - "Don't take it personally". This is where I began to air grievances. My first point was a question, "You mentioned that you were angry about me ending our friendship. You also mentioned multiple times that you perceived attraction underlying our interactions together. Why, then, when you knew you were committed to him, did you not tell me about your commitment, and establish boundaries? Don't you think that you could've saved our friendship".
[Annnnd boom goes the dynamite]
As was the case several times in the conversation: some things caught her off guard, but only somewhat. And she owned all of it. She agreed with that statement, and that she was in error by failing to establish boundaries, despite clearly perceiving attraction - on my end and hers. Incredibly she said, "I was being selfish, I wanted to have what I had with you, and with Jeff".
Wow.
I then brought up how, by October, she no longer communicated with me...Wednesday through Sunday afternoon. I told her, "I felt like you used me", and that, based on that treatment, I [after the fact] questioned the value of our friendship based on that treatment.
I then went back at her again, prefacing with, "I've made a lot of mistakes in previous relationships - things that no longer do* [*me trying to communicate the improvements to my own confidence, assertively, masculinity, etc] - where I am passive in these interaction, and women are clueless about my feelings. But they're clueless all the time, all week. By you refusing to communicate with me [texting] Wednesday through Sunday when you're around Jeff, you knew that there were feelings there."
[Annnnd boom goes the dynamite]
She again owned it, saying that how she and I interacted was inappropriate, and that she wanted to shield that from Jeff. She admitted that was wrong, and that her behavior was hurtful/disrespectful to me/our friendship, and apologized.
She lost points, though, when she noted that, after me, "that kind of behavior - by me, and by Jeff - only got worse" in the time after we cut things off. Clearly things got worse on her end before getting better.
Lastly, and carefully, I went after The ("Stupid Fuckin') Picture. I explained to her that the only communication I got from her after I mailed that letter was "her posting that picture" (of her and Jeff, embracing, with his hand on her ass). Before I could say any more, she got defensive, and said
1.) She did not post that to retaliate against me (which I can't exactly believe, given that she does so many other things reflexively)
2.) She said that she didn't get my letter immediately, citing that she "only checks the studio mail [where I sent it] every couple weeks".
She seemed to change the subject by then stating how upset Jefe was about me sending it ("He was there when I brought it home, but he didn't read it").
She then reiterated that she did not post that to affect me in any way, and that, for a long time, she was "extremely resistant to posting anything about Jeff" on her FB, up until that point. She did not express why, then, she did post it, and I did not get a chance to ask her.
We then transitioned to talking about Jeff. She spoke about how distrustful he got, and how, inexplicably, it worsened as the months went on. She brought up how I introduced myself to Jeff at the studio, and - apparently - he didn't know who I was until that point - and how extremely upset that made him...simply by me introducing myself. She shared how, only days/weeks before, he'd gotten in physical altercation with a guy at a party. She did not elaborate, though I perceive it was about something he found inappropriate with this guy, regarding Chelsea.
She stated that, "had he known that was you, he might've gone after you at the studio."
I could barely keep a straight face, given how hilarious that was to me.
I explained to her that I felt it was "really important, and the mature thing to do" for me to introduce myself to him ,and that "from one man to another" acknowledge each others' presence, and me - by introducing myself - was expressing that I had nothing to hide, no longer had any vested interest, and thereby respected the boundaries of their relationship.
This was true. But I failed to mention to her that I did want to get in his head, by demonstrating that *I*, not him, was the alpha male - by assertively cutting through the passive bullshit - and express that I was neither pursuing his girlfriend...or scared of him. That, I kept to myself. That it worked some thrillingly well was scarcely hidden from view at that moment.
Chelsea noted that she did not want to elaborate on the demise of her and Jeff, other than there were significant trust issues, and those escalating behaviors played a role. She also noted that there were "still things to deal with between he and I". She did not elaborate.
At that point, the important realities were on the table. She owned all of it, again stating that she was selfish in her actions, and that she made a lot of mistakes and she "has a lot to work on" in her interactions. This suprised me and, honestly, stripped away a lot of my self-righteousness and "she-doesn't-get-it" anger that has stuck with me for so long.
She said that, initially, she did not think about me very much. But, as the months passed, she began to think of me more and more, namely this summer. She cited having some experiences that reminded her either of talks we had, or things we'd done together. And that, finally, she began to self-reflect, in the way I'd asked her to.
She mentioned having some religious conflicts, and I brought up the concept of "Catholic guilt", and expressed how important it was for me that she not feel guilty: that that was the reason I came back to yoga in March, and that - even with all that I said - I did not want her to feel guilty.
Then, in a pinnacle move, I reached across the table, put her hand in mine, and said, "I forgive you, and I hope you'll forgive me, too".
After that, it was almost over. She said, numerous times, that she wanted to do this, not because she expected anything, but because of what was there, and how it ended. I expressed to her that, although I didn't "want to" talk, I needed to. And, "The reason that I'm here is that, despite how things developed and ended, I felt like we truly made a connection, and I still think that's real. That's why I'm here."
And then it was over. She had to pick up her kids, so we left. We hugged, then parted ways.
*****
[Then, when I was out of ear shot, I began to laugh in near-hysterics, about fucking Jefe and how I got into his head. YES! AWESOME.]
****
Initial impressions:
This went pretty well. Almost annoyingly well. I was hoping she'd be completely clueless and persistently selfish, but - despite starting weakly and failing to make the connection between "I had no idea" and, "Oh yeah, there were feelings underneath it" - she owned up to everything and was sincere in her regret and apology.
I could perceive that she's in the best "place" right now than I've ever known her to be. Again this is mildly annoying because of how effectively it strips me of any bitterness. Because she truly gets it, and recognizes that there are areas is her life and how she interacts with people that need change. This is exactly what she needs.
All things considered? There's a frightening bit of "potential here". It is horrifying because I could not ever possibly allow myself to be hurt by her again; I expressed to her how "our relationship has challenged me to grow more than maybe any other", but failed to mention how incredibly stressful and - perhaps - created long-term damage to both my mental and physical stress-handling capability.
She expressed that she still cares about me, and that - in a vague way - seemed to express that there were, in fact, feelings, and that she has now had time to "reflect". Implicit in all that is that she values me, significantly.
As for me? I will lay low for...a while. And I will fiercely defend my boundaries - and, if need be, her own - in any future interaction. But even in the tiny bit of small talk we had at the end, there remains a strong, clear "life interest" in someone that, for a significant amount of time, was a valued person in my life.
Ultimately, I'd like to see if we might be able to chip together some sort of basic friendship, with clearly-defined (and well-defended) boundaries. Time will tell whether or not this happens, and how.
But again, all things considered, there is a scary potential here. But damn, she'd have to show me a whole lot of awesome - and legitimate change - in order for something other than friendship to develop.
In the meantime, I've got some good things going on in other areas of my life, and I'll continue to whole-heartedly explore those options.